SPECIAL: Author Interview - Darin Watkins

Today we have a special Author interview. I worked with Darin back in 2015 and reconnected with him today to begin a new series of shows where I will be interviewing a few of the authors I’ve worked with over the years…what their book is about, how the book has helped them…what it has done for them, and where they are now.

So let me introduce you to Darin Watkins…

Nicole Gabriel:

Today we have a special author interview. I worked with Darren back in 2015, and reconnected with him today to begin a new series of shows where I will be interviewing a few of the authors I've worked with over the years, what their book is about, how the book has helped them, what it has done for them, and where they are now. Let me introduce you to Darren Watkins. Darren Watkins is a 1984 WSU graduate and lifelong Coug fan. Darren worked as a television news reporter for 25 years in Washington, with his last nine years at Seattle television station KING-TV, and can still be found filling in at KHQ-TV and KXLY-TV in Spokane.

Nicole Gabriel:

Among his favorite stories, we're covering Apple Cup Games, traveling to both Rose Bowls, and following Mike Price to Alabama for his first day on the job. He previously served as a spokesperson for WSU under President Allison S. Ford. He lives in Spokane with Sun Garrick and goes back to Pullman often, where his daughter, Delaney, is now a second-generation Coug. Here is our interview. Tell me, what is your book about?

Darin Watkins:

My book, plain and simple, was about a football team from back over 100 years ago. While it was a great story being a football fan of the Washington State University Cougars, while it's a great story for them, this really was a fun little romp with the research that I did through that time change, you know, that sort of slice of Americana? It's a fun look back, not just at these group of guys and what they were able to accomplish, but just the setting and where they were, and…

Darin Watkins:

You know, today we take so many of the modern conveniences for granted that it is kind of fun to look back at a time where there weren't things like refrigerators, or radio, or telephones, or anything like that. It's funny to think that just a hundred years ago, all of that, none of that existed.

Nicole Gabriel:

Absolutely. How did the story come about anyway?

Darin Watkins:

Well, so this all started for me, kind of a crazy journey. I was in a football game back in kind of the late '80s there, a big fan of Washington State University, went to college there, and had season tickets for forever. It was one of those years where the Cougs, as they're known, had a pretty good year. And they were... about halfway through the season, they had won more games than they'd lost. Of course, everybody talks about championships after a good season like that, and a bunch of us guys were down at a place called the Fieldhouse. It's a popular place to gather where they served food and drinks, and for vendors, and that sort of thing. Kind of a big, as you would expect, a big campus environment there, where you sort of gather there and head to the game.

Darin Watkins:

Nearby, I'm going to say about six to eight feet away from us was an older gentleman, who was just kind of sitting by himself. You could tell someone had... he was waiting for someone to come [inaudible 00:03:21] the way he was whipping around. And we were all talking about Rose Bowl. And this would be the year that our team goes to the Rose Bowl. That was the championship at the time for the conference.

Darin Watkins:

And as we got up to kind of bundle up to go into the game, this gentleman had stood up, and had grabbed a hold of my sleeve, and I turned around and he said, "Hey, I heard you boys talking about the Rose Bowl." He said, "You know, my dad played in the Rose Bowl, and he was a captain." I was like, "Well, that's pretty cool." I mean the gentleman was obviously in his advanced ages. He was close to 90 at the time, and I just said "Who'd he play for?" And he kind of had this funny look in his eye, and he said, "Washington State."

Darin Watkins:

And I thought, "What? Washington State played in the very first Rose Bowl?" And that sounded confusing to me. I'd been at Cougar fan for most of my adult life. I'd never heard that story. And so after the game, I saw him sitting there waiting, and I came over to him, and we sat down, and for the next hour or better, he could vividly recall in detail, events of that team and that game that were absolutely remarkable. And I'm an old news reporter, and let me tell you, it was the greatest story I ever heard, let alone, and it went to my heart again.

Darin Watkins:

As a fan of the game and a fan of Washington State, it truly was just this amazing story about a team of players. They were farm kids and laborers' sons, who had really wanted to make a better life for themselves, and had gone to college, and became this team that was so bad, that their cross-state rival, the Washington Huskies swore they'd never play them again. And it was just a downtime for them.

Darin Watkins:

And so, I took this great story that I had from this gentlemen and I spent off and on, I would research it or I'd collect those photos. It was kind of like my private little story, right? It was my little story that I told people. I had old photos on the wall, and people would ask about it, because very few people seem to even know about that the team was in existence, or that the game happened.

Darin Watkins:

And so as time went on, I ran into a writer, a fellow who was a writer on campus at Washington State where I worked there. And he asked me, he said, "Well, is that the gentleman who told you that story, is he still around?" And I said, "No. No, no, he passed on not long after he told me the story." And he said, "Well, that's too bad. That means that the story technically dies with him."

Nicole Gabriel:

Aw.

Darin Watkins:

My heart just dropped out. I mean, right? I mean, so, when you have this great story, and I've done a lot of research on it, but going from that, you know, crossing the gap of that comfort zone of being able to try to actually put together a book, that as an enormous leap, and it's been a great journey, and I'm really glad I took it.

Nicole Gabriel:

Wow. Wow. So what was your inspiration to write it?

Darin Watkins:

Well, the hundred year anniversary was coming up. This was then about 2012, and 2013, and I knew that the deadline was coming. And Nicole, I got to say, I don't even know how your clients start a book. The hardest thing is starting, and the second hardest thing is finishing. And not just starting the book, really, I just sat down and I picked a part of the book that I thought would be my favorite. And I just started writing. And I just wrote the whole chapter. And when it was done, I had something in my hand I could look at. And then I laid out an outline and they said, okay, if I want to take leaders on this journey to go from point A to point B, what pieces are needed, right?

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah.

Darin Watkins:

If there's a sequence that I can bring to you from my television news career or communication, it's that it's all about what people would like to read, not so much about what you want to say, right?

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah.

Darin Watkins:

I think a lot of times people say, "I want to write a book because I have a lot to say." Well, who wants to read that? And so for me, the challenge was I'm not a writer. And then I was a broadcaster for years. I could tell a story, but I did not know how to write a story. And that probably was the biggest challenge. The inspiration was to get the story out in time to make the hundred year anniversary, but the biggest challenge was just figuring out the rules and how everything worked.

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. So, what is it about the story that is so unique that made you go through this whole process to write the book, to research it?

Darin Watkins:

[inaudible 00:08:13] I love the idea that there was a championship, there was a national championship, and that the team that I love was a part of that. But deeper down, it really got down to the core of what this... the way that this gentleman told me the story, right? His father's name was Ace Clark, if you can believe that. And Ace Clark was the quarterback of this team, and his son Gerard. And it really was a story of how these guys who were just a ragtag group of athletes at the turn of the century who, thanks to an innovative coach, became national champions. Were the best in the country. It's just truly remarkable how do you get there, right?

Darin Watkins:

And so for me, the challenge was in telling the story in the way that I heard it. I really wanted the story to be about, you know, these guys had finished the season the year before so bad that no one really wants to even acknowledge that there was a football team.

Darin Watkins:

And then next year they come out and they went a couple of games, and, "Oh wow, now guys are talking to them about football." And then couple more games, and suddenly, teachers are giving them extra time on their assignments, and then girls were talking to them, and heck, about two thirds through the season, now you've got dances being held in their honor, and gosh, before it's all said and done, they're on a train headed to Los Angeles, they get cast in movies, they meet Hollywood starlets, they meet stars, and they get the royal treatments, and they're put on this national stage for the first ever championship of college football, the best of the East versus the best in the West.

Darin Watkins:

It truly was remarkable, a remarkable journey to think about. And I wanted to write the book in that context of, you know, they just started off, and they had this wild coach that they hired from back East, and comes out to change football.

Darin Watkins:

And that in and of itself was... the stories within the stories were really what I enjoyed the most. This was a coach, his name is William "Lone Star" Dietz. He's half German and half a Sioux Indian, and this was at a time when racial parity, it wasn't really a conversation piece in America, and yet he stood for himself and he was a unique character to football. He never yelled at his players, he rarely scrimmaged, but he was very innovative, and he changed the way football was played. And the impacts of that are rippled through college football today.

Nicole Gabriel:

Wow. Wow. Just to live back then. How amazing.

Darin Watkins:

Right?

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah. Yeah. So now, you've written the book, and what would you say have been your greatest successes or failures even, since you've written it?

Darin Watkins:

Well, I'll start with the failures first. I did a lot of writing. I think the original manuscript itself might've touched on 10,000 words. It was huge. And I then discovered that the secret to good writing is good editing. And so, the challenge was, I rewrote this book... I can tell you the truth, I rewrote this eight times from front to back.

Nicole Gabriel:

Wow.

Darin Watkins:

And on version about number five, ran into a friend whose dad was somebody that actually worked for some publishing houses, and reviewed books and manuscripts. And so as a favor to me, he sent it to his dad, and his dad read the whole thing. and I was pretty excited because I thought maybe this was a pathway to publishing and all that. And he called me back, and without using some flattering terminology, he basically said that this book was a piece of “s”. I mean just really, it was just awful.

Nicole Gabriel:

No.

Darin Watkins:

I was flabbergasted, because I thought it was such a great story. But then he sat down and he gave me, I think I took, in an hour long conversation, I probably took another seven, eight pages of notes about what was wrong. Just some of the rules. For example, because this is not a work of fiction, it's a work of nonfiction. And because I wanted it to be authentic, you can't just write quotes on how you might think someone spoke, right.

Nicole Gabriel:

Ah.

Darin Watkins:

Right?

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah.

Darin Watkins:

In my mind, I didn't know the difference. I just wrote a conversation. I knew, what they talked about, I knew how the outcome of that conversation, I'd read enough transcripts to realize how that person spoke, and I thought it would be okay, that that was a literary license, and it turns out that just is not allowed.

Darin Watkins:

Everything that's a quote, you literally have to find a reference to it that someone can go back and look at that exact quote, written down, recorded somewhere else. And so that was an eye opener. I had a great story to tell, but I needed to know the rules. And once I had those rules in place, the rewrite that I put together on that version required me to do some soul searching and research. Just little things like, how do you write a quote for somebody when you can't find that quote? You know what they had the conversation about.

Darin Watkins:

And so, I started going to... watching webinars and I started getting books on how to write, and things like that. And one of the things I discovered was in another book that I had previously read, called Boys In the Boat. It was a book about the University of Washington crew team. And in places where he didn't have an exact quote, it was the way that he crafted the language that I was most impressed with.

Darin Watkins:

He would say things like... instead of having athletes say, "I'm afraid." Well, you can't say that with a quote. Instead you can write, what person in that situation wouldn't be afraid, right? You can basically, so you can use language by describing it without actually quoting it. And that was a powerful thing. That gave me the tool to help guide the reader if you will, through the storylines. So that was probably the biggest help of all.

Darin Watkins:

So the biggest triumph in all of this I will say, was that I actually got to a place where the book was published in September of 2015 at the start of the hybrid year season. This was a 2015 football league that ended with the 19th. I mean, sorry, the Rose Bowl was in 1916, so having it out that season was most important to do a hundred year anniversary. And that was the greatest triumph.

Darin Watkins:

And I would say, if I was to offer advice on how we make this process work for others who might be considering writing a book, it's to find the right people to help, whether it's someone that can help guide you on how to write, whether it's finding a good editor that can go through and edit the book, whether it's finding a good designer. Thank you, Nicole-

Nicole Gabriel:

You're welcome.

Darin Watkins:

... for designing the book. And you know, it's not an easy process. It's not. I remember early on in our conversations that you and I had about what my vision was for this book, and you really learn quickly that a team can make a product far better than an individual can.

Nicole Gabriel:

Yes. Yes.

Darin Watkins:

We all fall in love with our stories. We fall in love with what we think that should look like and sound like, not realizing... I think the first conversation I had with you, how many did you tell me, different things that have to go into a cover of a book? It was some five dozen different pieces that go into a book? I had no idea.

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah, there's a lot. There's definitely a lot. So, you wrote your book, you got through all of the challenges, and you finally were holding the book in your hand. How did that feel?

Darin Watkins:

I have to tell you something. I've even written stories about this. There is an emotion that happens when you are holding that book in your hand, and it's got that Library of Congress registration, that is just... and your name is on it, right?

Nicole Gabriel:

Yeah.

Darin Watkins:

There is this emotion that you feel, and I've asked other writers, and you think writers would be great. They're great with words, they're great with describing it, and it's hard to describe. But I can tell you this. It is amongst... probably as powerful an emotion as I felt graduating from high school, or the birth of my daughter, or my son or... it is a profoundly powerful emotion, and it might be one of the most hard to describe.

Darin Watkins:

Maybe there's different words in different languages that have already addressed this, but from the English language, I have a hard time... and I don't know what that is, is because maybe you've made a place? Maybe there's a sense of permanence? Or is it because you've accomplished something that you didn't think you could ever do? Or is it because you're made a contribution back, right? You've carried a story forth that people will read it, and get the same joy out of it as you did when you first heard it. I don't know what that is. It's just some mixture already included, but it is a powerful experience.

Nicole Gabriel:

Wow. Yes, I know. I know. I cry every time I write one. Yeah. Yeah. And most of my clients do, so it's very emotional. So will you write another book?

Darin Watkins:

Well, that is... you know, everybody asks me that question, what's next for you, because I'm convinced that you can't write a book and make any money on it. I will tell you by many benchmarks, Chance For Glory is a success. I sold close to 5,000 copies, but honestly, it doesn't make very much money. Writers don't make a lot of money on the books. And it's a story that ha... it's endearing, right? Just because every year, there's a new crop of football fans that have never heard a story about their great team.

Darin Watkins:

And you know, it's a great chance to... I can't go to a Cougar party without talking about this book. And I'll take books to alumni parties and I'll give them away, or I'll host events, or online comcasts, or... It has been so much fun, not just telling the story, but telling the story of the book, that yes, it's a story about a bunch of ragtag individuals who find success, but in a way it's my story about somebody who never thought they could write a book, and overcame that and wrote one.

Nicole Gabriel:

That's awesome. That's awesome. I love to hear that. And okay, so, tell us how to get ahold of you. Tell us, what's next in your future? What's next for Darin?

Darin Watkins:

I have to say, I have a lot more interests, and honestly, I've been trying to help other people write books, right? It's just, other folks that you will hear have a great story. One of those is my accountant who believes that there's ways we could change the IRS, or whether it's a law maker whose family was struck by a serial killer, and that loss has driven her into being a very powerful victim rights advocate. Those are great stories to tell, and if there's something I'd like to do next, I think I would like to help those folks find their voice, and help them through this process as well.

Darin Watkins:

You can find me, the website for the book is chance and the number 4, glory. Chance4Glory.com, and it is a... I have to say, getting back to the book real quick, when I talked about the slice of Americana, here's an example of the time.

Darin Watkins:

This was a timeframe when people wouldn't know the outcome of a football game for days, until the team came back. Typically in the Northwest here, teams were having to travel to Montana, down to Oregon. That'd be a day or so on a train. And they wouldn't know the outcome till it was over. Well, somewhere in the middle of this, it was discovered that there was a woman who ran the local telegraph office, and there's not a lot of telegraph traffic on the weekends. And so, her son was going to school at Washington State, and he would travel to these far away games, and the old hammer pad that you see in the movies, where you're tapping it, and it makes most code signals?

Nicole Gabriel:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Darin Watkins:

Those are kind of gotten away from that. They were now teletype machines, but he would take that and he'd hook it up to the wires, and he would send back his mom live dispatches from the game.

Nicole Gabriel:

Wow.

Darin Watkins:

And that was kind of fun. It was like a little private secret. Well, once the team starts winning it, word started getting out that you could find out what was happening in the game right off the bat. So people started gathering around this telegraph office, and she would read off the dispatchers.

Darin Watkins:

And by the end of the book, when there's the national championship, it is such a big deal, that they take an old hotel, and they paint a football field on the side. They take a ball, they'd put it on the end of a pole, and the mayor himself would come out and read dispatches from the game saying, you know, "Third down, they moved the ball, and they were..." and the ball would move on a pole, and people would cheer, and they learned they basically were able to enjoy the game live, [inaudible 00:23:02] in Washington State, that was happening down in Pasadena. It was just those kind of innovative slices of Americana that really made the story magical.

Darin Watkins:

There was another part of it that for me, it was something that I discovered rather than actually was told, was, Lone Star Dietz was someone who had some strong philosophies about race. For years he had written letters to producers and directors in Hollywood saying, "Why are you portraying Indians the way you are? That's just not right." And they would often lean to him to make sure that their movies were more accurate portrayals.

Darin Watkins:

But at the same time, he wanted to be seen for the man he was, not for the color of his skin. And so he would often dress up in full blown suits to wear on the sidelines. And there comes a story that he talks about where he had met a player from... it was a championship game, and he had gone down to watch them practice.

Darin Watkins:

He had run into all the running back that was this... he was one of the first African Americans to actually played college level, division 1 football. And he asked... there was a great conversation he had. He said, "When you look at... you know, what do you see? When you look at me, what do you see?" And he said, "Because you know, when I look at you, what I see is I see a man. I see a strong man who has a future in football, if he wants to stay with it." And he wanted people to judge each other for who they are, not what they were. And it was a profound philosophy for the time, and I think it's one that endears for the day.

Darin Watkins:

And those were the kinds of pieces around Americano that I loved bringing forward in the book, because it helped to... I don't know, it just captures our imagination about a time long past, but at the same time, maybe values that we crave and would love to see played out and demonstrated today. Certainly it feels... when you read something like that, you think about, that's missing in our lives today.

Nicole Gabriel:

Absolutely. That's a great story for everyone today, and back then. Amazing. And boy, we need more stories like this today.

Darin Watkins:

It's a great story, and thank you for helping me tell it and get the book out, and all of that.

Nicole Gabriel:

Absolutely. Yeah. I'm excited for you. I know it was a long time ago you wrote this, worked with me, and I'm glad to hear you're so passionate about it still today. And so I am excited to have reconnected with you, and I'm really glad we had this opportunity. I look forward to hearing more. I hope there's another book in the future.

Darin Watkins:

No, it'd be great. And should you need any help or have any writers who need advice or whatnot, please, feel free to steer them my way. I'd be more than happy to help offer my advice and counsel. And the best advice I can offer is, just get started. Just start writing. It's the best way to get something on paper that has meaning. And then once you have enough, do you think to where it looks like a book, get a hold of folks like you, and find a good team of people to help make it a reality, because it truly can be a profound experience to get a story told like that.

Nicole Gabriel:

Awesome. So people can find you again at chance, 4, the number 4, glory.com, and everybody look him up. This a wonderful story to share, yesterday and today. So I look forward to more. We'll talk to you soon.

Darin Watkins:

Thank you for you time.

www.chance4glory.com

Nicole Gabriel:

All right, well thank you.